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neuropsychiatrist
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Post subject: APRIL 2005 D.C. EXAM: NEW TESTING/EXAMINER FORMAT...
 Posted: Apr 11, 2005 - 08:24 AM
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Joined: Nov 04, 2003
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I was just informed by candidates who recently prepared for Part II with me that at the Washington D.C. exam in April 2005 there was a noteable change in format. Apparently the audiovisual examination presentation is now conducted facing only one examiner, instead of the old way of presenting to two examiners. There still seems to be a senior examiner who floats in and out of the room during the presentation, but the candidate's fate seems to boil down to the decision of one examiner. It's quite unfair, since the entire exam result would seem to ride on one person's decision about a candidate.
Also, it seems that the examiners are pushing to rush the candidate through the presentation and jump directly to the diagnosis and discussion part of the examination. Most of my candidates were interrupted during their presentation of the HPI, other histories, or mental status and told by the examiner to jump directly to the diagnosis without even formulating the case. The examiners presumably are looking for more time to grill the candidate with questions.
These format changes are quite unfortunate and seem less favorable for candidates. I would nevertheless strongly advise prospective candidates to continue to prepare, practice and do mock exams in the SAME WAY you have done them before, just don't be put off when the examiners ask you to jump to the diagnosis and discussion. This also indicates that candidates should focus much of their practice on the diagnosis and treatment plan discussion, as the examiners will be using these areas more heavily to weight their pass/fail decisions
Good luck and do well in the coming exams!!
J. Clive Spiegel M.D. |
_________________
J. Clive Spiegel M.D.
Director, "THE ULTIMATE"
Psychiatry Oral Board Preparation Course
www.neuropsychiatrist.medem.com
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williamland
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Posted: Apr 12, 2005 - 02:32 PM
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Joined: Mar 30, 2002
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I agree with the excellent comments written in the post above.
Many of the candidates I tutored had similiar experiences.
I've always encouraged psychiatrists to focus on the formulation, differential diagnosis and treatment plan on the videotape. I think the examiner(s) really want to focus on these areas, rather than just listen to a complete summary of all of the information on the videotape.
Best wishes,
William Land, MD
www.pyschboardprep.com |
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Admin
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Posted: Apr 13, 2005 - 07:55 PM
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Joined: May 27, 2002
Posts: 47
Location: Beautiful Scottsdale Arizona
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I would be very interested to hear from other examinees if having one examiner in the room is the new norm. Having been an examiner in the past, I can not understand why ABPN would want to make a one-examiner exam the norm. Typically, two examiners are used to improve interater reliability. I agree that it would seem awfully arbitrary with only one examiner conducting the test. My gut tells me this must have been a fluke.
I am not surprised that the presentation got rushed along a bit. All of the examiners have already seen the tape, and have all agreed upon several themes they are looking for from the examinees. They are anxious to get down to business. They are looking for the examinee to either spontaneously touch upon the themes, or they will gently prompt to get you to discuss them. An example - in the tape, the patient talks about how he loves his 0.357 magnum, and that he likes to keep it handy "just in case". The examiners may have decided that they want to hear about doing a violence assessment. They may be expecting to hear something like, "I would like to do a more thorough assessment of his history for violent behavior, given the comments he made about his gun..." If you do not bring up the topic, they may say, "Did you hear Mr. X make some comments about a 0.357 magnum? Please tell me your thoughts about what he said." They are pushing to discuss all of the preset themes within the 30 minute session.
For those of you preparing for the video portion of part II, I would recommend that you plan on making your presentation brief and succinct. Never try to run out the clock in hope of avoiding being questioned - they WILL interrupt you! Plus, you will irritate the examiners (not good to do). Shoot for 10 minutes or less for presentation. |
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neuropsychiatrist
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Posted: Apr 13, 2005 - 08:56 PM
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Joined: Nov 04, 2003
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To further this discussion: candidates told me that Dr. Scheiber, the ABPN executive director informed all candidates about the change to one examiner during the audiovisual examination. He apparantly mentioned this change during his usual introductory remarks on the day of registration. He supposedly stated that there weren't enough examiners to cover the number of candidates in Washington D.C. There was also some mention of cost-cutting to the Board, but I wouldn't swear to that as only a handful of candidates told this to me.
I do nevertheless believe that the AV exam in D.C. was conducted with only one permanent and one floating examiner FOR EVERY CANDIDATE and it wasn't a fluke. It remains unclear if this format will continue at future exams.
Most upsetting is the fact that the lone examiner supposedly prefaced the presentation by stating "Please present the pertinent POSITIVES and SYMPTOMS that you DID see. I am not interested in hearing about what was missing from the interview."
This format really seems to negate the whole challenge of using INFERENCE and CONJECTURE when information is scanty on a taped interview. This always seemed to be a skill that the examiners appreciated seeing candidates demonstrate.
I guess the discussion is not over on this one, but let's keep the dialogue open to the benefit of candidates everywhere!
Cheers. |
_________________
J. Clive Spiegel M.D.
Director, "THE ULTIMATE"
Psychiatry Oral Board Preparation Course
www.neuropsychiatrist.medem.com
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Admin
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 14, 2005 - 09:42 AM
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Joined: May 27, 2002
Posts: 47
Location: Beautiful Scottsdale Arizona
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| Wow! I appreciate the intelligence gathering. If this becomes the new "rule" it will be very unfortunate for candidates, and will further increase the house advantage (to use a gambling metaphor). This means there is no guarantee that you will get an experienced examiner. The float can not possibly be there enough to contribute materially to the candidate's evaluation. Their role had always been to oversee the process, more than judge the content. Other than the cost of travel, I don't understand how cutting examiners will be a huge cost savings (examiners don't get paid for their time as it is!). It will certainly cut the quality of the exam in my opinion. We will have to keep a close eye on the Kansas City exam. |
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carty002
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Post subject: one examiner for video
Posted: Apr 22, 2005 - 06:05 PM
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Joined: Apr 23, 2004
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I took the exam and it was true. There was one examiner and another one who came and left. I found this very distracting and I got more nervous and lost my train of thought when he entered the room.
It's ok though... I passed! |
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Admin
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Posted: Apr 23, 2005 - 01:12 AM
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Joined: May 27, 2002
Posts: 47
Location: Beautiful Scottsdale Arizona
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| I looked carefully at ABPNs website, and under their discription of the exam, it does say "one or more" examiners. I even looked at old archived versions on Wayback, and this page is exactly identical...meaning this is not a new policy, but rather an option that has been on the books at least 4 years back, but not really used. I suspect they just ran short on examiners. Take a look at this page: www.abpn.com/certification/part2_info.html |
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neuropsychiatrist
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Post subject: NEW EXAM FORMAT....
Posted: Apr 24, 2005 - 11:52 AM
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Joined: Nov 04, 2003
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I see that the board reserves the right to have only one examiner sit in on any given examination; however we all know that this is not the norm and it's unfair. I have had candidates fail their audiovisual examination this time who were extremely well-prepared...likely because of the "one examiner" situation. It's an unfortunate change in policy and I have a feeling that it will become the rule rather than the exception for upcoming examinations. The power conveyed to this lone examiner becomes absolute and as such I think many more candidates will fail. After all, do you think a lone examiner is going to "question his/her own judgment" by assigning a "conditional" grade to a candidate and asking for help from the senior float examiner? I think not, but we'll wait for Kansas City and Minneapolis to see what occurs. Keep watching this posting for updates.
J. Clive Spiegel M.D. |
_________________
J. Clive Spiegel M.D.
Director, "THE ULTIMATE"
Psychiatry Oral Board Preparation Course
www.neuropsychiatrist.medem.com
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rangi
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Post subject: RE: NEW EXAM FORMAT....
Posted: Apr 26, 2005 - 08:53 PM
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Joined: Apr 25, 2005
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| In my case, in Washington the AV exam started with 2 examiners, a float came and left without opening his mouth and soon after one of the examiners left me to spar with the remaining fellow. It is my understanding that 3 examiners were assigned to 2 candidates with a float. Hence one of the examiner was used to examine both the candidates. I started with 2 and the other candidate got the 2nd examiner while half way into his presentation. This could be a disadvantage for the candidate as the examiner coming in half way would have no clue as to what had transpired prior. |
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derrhama
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Post subject: RE: NEW EXAM FORMAT....
Posted: May 09, 2005 - 12:28 PM
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Joined: May 09, 2005
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The experience with one examiner during the AV portion was not a bad one - it was actually a bit less anxiety provoking as I only had one pair of eyes and ears grading me. Yes, the senior examiner entering the room, staying, and then asking questions was distracting - but it wasn't bad. The senior, though, did stay in the room a good portion of time - and asked a wide variety of questions. I think I recall him leaving once, and then returning toward the end of the 30 minutes.
An interesting note - we were introduced to the main examiner, as well as one senior examiner. Both the senior and the main examiner followed the candidate in the same general direction. So, I don't know if my senior actually examined other cases - as there was not opportunity for him to be introduced to the other candidates. So, it makes me think that this might be a new 'protocol' they are creating??? I don't know ... |
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neuropsychiatrist
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Post subject: CHANGES IN THE A/V EXAMINATION FORMAT TO ONE EXAMINER...
Posted: May 09, 2005 - 04:41 PM
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Joined: Nov 04, 2003
Posts: 41
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I am glad that the one examiner format hasn't been too intimidating for some candidates. I do still think that it is very unfair, because that individual has the sole inexorable power to fail a candidate. If other candidates went to Washington D.C., please post your experiences with the A/V exam here and let us know if you passed or not....
Thanks |
_________________
J. Clive Spiegel M.D.
Director, "THE ULTIMATE"
Psychiatry Oral Board Preparation Course
www.neuropsychiatrist.medem.com
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neuropsychiatrist
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Post subject: REGARDING THE NEW VIDEO PART TWO EXAM FORMAT....
Posted: Jun 12, 2005 - 05:51 PM
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Joined: Nov 04, 2003
Posts: 41
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Several of my recent candidates have just returned from Kansa City and the Part Two examination this weekend. One of my candidates actually spoke to Dr. Scheiber about the matter of having only one examiner present during the audiovisual exam. He feels it is fair and justified. He stated that the passing rate on the audiovisual exam apparently went up after this format change in Washington D.C. in April. He said that the reason the board is doing this now is to cut costs.
He stated that the format will continue.
So folks, get ready for it, because it looks like this will be an ongoing, if not permanent change.
J. Clive Spiegel M.D. |
_________________
J. Clive Spiegel M.D.
Director, "THE ULTIMATE"
Psychiatry Oral Board Preparation Course
www.neuropsychiatrist.medem.com
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neuropsychiatrist
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 30, 2005 - 07:59 AM
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Joined: Nov 04, 2003
Posts: 41
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Apparently, the one-examiner format for the audiovisual exam is now here to stay. It seems the Board has changed the scoring format for the entire exam. Examiners now rate candidates on a 1 to 8 point scale for five items and average this to a score out of 8. The two live patient examiners do not confer and each comes to his/her own score. The two scores are added up for a total out of 16. The solo video examiner gives you a score out of 8 that is then doubled to a score out of 16. The scores are all totaled out of 32. If your total adds up to 20 or more, you pass. This implies that you can pass one exam and fail the other and still pass overall. Nevertheless, the Board is still reporting to candidates that they failed one, the other, or both exams. I'm not sure why they are doing that.
It seems very important now to impress the video examiner and get a great score so it doubles and carries over to the live exam.
Dr. Scheiber of the ABPN states that this new format favors the candidate and it seems the passing rate has gone up a few % since the Washington D.C. and Kansas City exams this year.
We'll continue to keep you abreast of new changes!
J. Clive Spiegel M.D. |
_________________
J. Clive Spiegel M.D.
Director, "THE ULTIMATE"
Psychiatry Oral Board Preparation Course
www.neuropsychiatrist.medem.com
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Admin
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 30, 2005 - 07:56 PM
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Joined: May 27, 2002
Posts: 47
Location: Beautiful Scottsdale Arizona
Status: Offline
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| Clive, you beat me to the punch with your post! I just heard the same info a few days ago, and am trying to confirm it with first-hand sources. What I heard is identical to what you posted. I scoured the ABPN website, and there is NO MENTION of any change in the scoring---Amazing! |
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